LACM Roundtable: Jim Keltner, Chad Wackerman, Don Lombardi & Gregg Bissonette

Gregg Bissonette brought his bagpipes, setting the stage for an unforgettable discussion on drumming and music. In this 3-part Roundtable, Don Lombardi is joined by the legendary Jim Keltner, Chad Wackerman, and Gregg Bissonette, who share invaluable insights on playing drums in the most musical way possible and supporting vocalists. Hear Jim’s story of Ringo Starr inspiring him to “play to the singing” and discover why he believes you must truly love music and have it “in you” to be a musician. Gregg shares his wisdom on playing drums from the heart rather than the head. They reminisce about the legendary Jeff Porcaro and Jim’s close friendship with Charlie Watts, revealing the magic behind the Rolling Stones’ music. Explore their thoughts on modern recording, with Chad highlighting the “un-copyable” drummers and sharing Frank Zappa’s unique approach of giving musicians lyric sheets to capture the song’s mood. Join this captivating conversation and gain priceless insights from some of the greatest drummers in the world! The following is just a small sampling of what’s in store for you in this Roundtable.

Gregg: It’s important to play with other people and play in front of people. That’s why Ringo tours. He doesn’t tour because he needs money. He tours because he’s about peace and love, and he tours because he sees somebody in the front row with a yellow submarine thing or dressed in his pink Sgt. Pepper suit. He gives love and gets love back. I think that’s why we all play music. We play drums to play with other musicians and to make music. When you see a downbeat with a lyric like the downbeat could be on the word “walking,” for example, and maybe before “walking,” you might want to put a drum fill in there, but if James Taylor’s going 1-2-3, “Been walking my mind through an easy time, my back turned towards the sun,” you don’t want to go, when he’s saying, “Been walking.” You don’t want a fill there. You want to let the people hear, “Been walking.” Jimmy Johnson would always say, “Let him have the time.” Don’t try to force the time.

Chad: Oh, it’s true. I mean, you can stop, and the band grooves without you. And on many of those songs, the drums sometimes come in after the second chorus. So then the challenge is, how do you make that smooth transition? There can’t be any tempo change. It’s got to be like your faders were down, and now we’re bringing the faders up. The drums just appear. And the opposite is true with the Zappa stuff. For example, for the punchline of the song, Frank would want the drums to play the rhythm of the lyric – that would punch out his words. He wanted the percussion to be with him in those instances. And sometimes, you can do that in pop tunes. They’ll want this big moment, and sometimes the drums go along with that to make it if it’s in a more aggressive kind of music. So it’s both. You have to be in tune and listen first. The other thing I’ll say, not only the drummer in James Taylor’s group, but if you’re playing a song for the first time and, say, the guitar player Landau plays a little fill, everybody else lets him play that fill. They let him have space. You don’t play on top of that. It’s like, oh, that was a cool moment. Next time, I’m not going to step on that. And then maybe Larry Goldings has this fill, and then James has a little, which creates this cool balance of you getting to hear this instrument and then this one. It’s almost like an arrangement. But it happens very organically.

Jim: Those guys – Landau, Goldings, and James – they’ll play better drum fills than you without having drums. I mean, they can. If you’re playing with people of that caliber, you can use that in your plan forever. But if you don’t get to that level and don’t get to play with people like that, you will naturally want to play the drum fill because it needs something there. I’ve been in that situation so many times where I had to play drum fills. I instinctively knew I had to play a fill, and I didn’t necessarily want to. I wish somebody else would’ve stepped up.

Chad: I’ve heard my students say, “Often I’ll play a lot of the same stuff all the time because it really works.” They play the same fills and solos over and over. My advice to them is to look at other musicians. Play the stuff the guitar players play. If you like Chick Corea, maybe pick one little phrase that Chick Corea does and try to play that on the drums because they play scales up and down, and they all play rhythm and intensity. There are tons of those you can pull from. Try to think like a composer on the drum set. Try to play maybe two or three motifs or melodic phrases. Maybe put some space, repeat it, play it slower or faster, or maybe play it on a different part of the drum kit. Terry Bozzio does this so well. This will help you start training your ears to be a bit more like a composer.

Gregg: My favorite drum solos are over songs. While you’re soloing, don’t think about rudiments, don’t think about sticking, or even drums or cymbals, or anything like that. Think about the song. And if you’re singing that song, you can go to anything you want. Years ago, at a clinic, a kid asked Terry Bozzio what he was thinking when he was playing, and Terry said, “I wasn’t thinking. I turned my brain off and turned my heart on. I let go and let God.” Vinnie Colautia says, “Don’t think. Just sing songs.” Follow the singer, the words, and the lyrics. Don’t fill over the song.

Jim: I was so close with Charlie Watts. There was a period when I was in England a lot. I would be at every one of their rehearsals, gigs, and backstage all the time. I got to be really intimate with his playing, and what I discovered was that Charlie, being a jazz drummer, was a swing guy. He knew that. When Charlie became the guy who was going to play with Keith Richards and The Rolling Stones, he had to learn how to play with Keith Richards. And I have played with Keith Richards enough to know that you cannot play what you naturally hear with Keith Richards and make it work. Charlie discovered that real early and stiffened up when he played with them. You could even see it in his neck when he was playing. No matter the tempo, he played really stiff, which allowed the swing to come through. If you’re playing with somebody and they’ve got a groove that is killing you, but for some reason, you don’t feel it when you play with them, experiment with that. People always say, Charlie Watts could swing, but he was allowing for that swing to happen. He wasn’t creating it.

Chad: As a drummer-musician in a band, you have the most power of anybody on stage. You’ve got more power than the leader of the band. You have the most power to change the music, make it great, or spoil it. Great drummers are usually great producers because they hear the music in a broad and global sense. They’re not just focused on themselves. You have to be able to shape a song, whatever kind of music you’re playing. And you have the most power to do that. If you decide you’re going to give the last chorus more energy, the whole band’s going to play with more energy.